Q: Problems with Daniel

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[This was first posted November 7, 2012. The OT book of Daniel has been a huge part of our Christian studies on prophecy; how many seminars did we attend w/our bible teacher “RW” who was obsessed with this book because supposedly, it’s crucial to the understanding of the last book of NT, Revelation. Well, we never really understood Daniel, ditto with Revelation. Later as Sinaites, we discovered Daniel is not even a major prophet; and the book is relegated to “the Writings”, the “K”,Ketuvim” in TNK, the Hebrew Scriptures. Aaaaaccccchhhhh! But good to know no matter how late, because now we know how to read it—not as prophecy but as . . . well . . . just like the Book of Revelation. —-Admin1.]

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Among many things that surprise any reader delving into unfamiliar literary and religious territory— the original ‘Hebrew Scriptures’ or the ‘Jewish Bible’—

is not only the number of books
but also the arrangement of the books,
as well as the placement of some books.

We have been so used to the chronological order of our Christian ‘Old’ Testament that when we look for books where we’re used to finding them, we have to reorient ourselves to a new way of approaching and understanding the Tanach/Tanakh, TNK (TORAH, NEVIIM, KETUVIIM).

Surely there are good reasons for the original order and placement of the books that comprise the canon of the TNK; the People of the Book well know what they are, but who else bothers or even tries to understand? Truly there is so much to relearn and unlearn for those who venture into the sacred scriptures of an unfamiliar ancient biblical faith that have been re-presented in another guise.

In previous articles, we have discussed that—

the TNK has 24 books;
- Christian OT has 39 books;
the reason for the difference of 15 is —
- OT split Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, Ezra-Nehemiah into 2 separate books
  - when they are only single books in the TNK;
- OT split the minor prophets into 12 separate books
  - while in the TNK, the 12 comprise 1 book under NEVIIM .

The same question in those articles bears repeating: WHY would a major world religion that develops some 4000 years later —

not only borrow the Scriptures of a people of differing beliefs,
append it to its own chosen canon of “divinely inspired” books,
consider it foundational to its beliefs,
yet minimize its importance,then tamper with its very words to make new interpretations to suit its new theology,
- first by retitling it as “old”
- then by considering it obsolete
- applicable only to the Jews, not to their gentile flock
- teaching that to observe TORAH is “legalistic”

creating a totally new religion but making the “Old” scriptures support and justify its “newness”
by teaching the “old” as mere prophetic literature.

Do any of these make any sense except in ‘replacement’ theology?

Should it not raise red flags among open-minded Truth-seekers who have started thinking outside of their religious box?

The specific question here concerns the book of Daniel. We are not yet ready to tackle this book but are probing into what it would have meant to the original hearers/readers (Israel) MINUS the connection Christians have made with the NT book of Revelation, which is said to be understandable only when linked with Daniel.

This strange book has been the focus of non-stop Christian eschatological interpretation; we have been exposed to so many of them, the last being a CD titled “Daniel’s Timeline” which our Messianic friends were all agog to learn in order to prepare for the “end times.”

The placement of Daniel in the Christian OT is with the “Major Prophets,” 4th after Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah; however in the Hebrew Scriptures, it is positioned among “The Writings,” the 3rd category titled Ketuvi’im.

When our Sabbath TORAH study group discussed the possible answers for this placement, we came up with the following —-

Daniel was not a “Prophet” like Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah, who spoke the very words of YHWH and therefore boldly proclaimed “Thus saith the LORD”;
like Joseph the dreamer and interpreter of dreams and visions (sometimes their own, sometimes of gentiles) one research showed that Daniel was a very late addition to the CANON of the TNK, that there were discussions as to whether or not it should be included, since it already reflected Hellenistic influences.
Daniel was much the same, given a special gift for specific purposes for his time and the situation of his people in exile who had lost land, Temple, but not their TORAH and their Elohiym;

We agree that Daniel as apocalyptic literature opens itself to all kinds of interpretations by religionists but surely, the God of revelation does not communicate in mysteries, for what would be the purpose of communicating at all? The scriptures are difficult enough to understand without the Author throwing in cryptic language.

There is a key to understanding the book of Daniel, but where or what is it?

The Rabbinical view provided in ArtScroll Tanach/

INTRODUCTION to the book of Daniel:

In the concluding chapters of the book, Daniel saw visions that remain the subject of intense speculation, for he was shown prophetic scenes of the “Four Beasts” representing the “Four Monarchies” that will dominate Israel during its long series of exiles. And he was shown the calculations of the “End of Days,” when Israel will be redeemed and the world will finally achieve the Divine goal for which it was created.

What did the numbers mean?
When and how will the events come about?

These visions remain clothed in mysteries that will not be stripped away until the time of the final Redemption is at hand. Then we will know how God’s seeds will sprout into the glorious fulfillment of the Scriptural prophecies.

Needless to say but we’ll say it anyway, Christians believe their New Testament provide the answers to OT mysteries, particularly in the last book of Revelation, an apocalyptic book that demonstrates dualism to its extreme: good and evil forces in final battle at Armageddon; the Dragon and his demonic forces fighting the LAMB, even if the Devil knows his inevitable END since, according to the gospels, Satan mouths scripture to the very Son of God Himself!

Ah, but then, did we just say we want to focus on Daniel’s interpretation minus Revelation? See how hard it is to get rid of baggage from former religious orientation.

So where is this whole discussion leading to? Read the title again . . . notice we didn’t write “Q&A”, just “Q”.

Frankly, we have no answers at this time, not yet, but at least we now know that Daniel was not even considered a “prophet” and so if this book has been relegated to Ketuviim, ‘the Writings’ by the Jews who put together the canon for their Hebrew Scriptures, then Christian borrowers of another people’s Scriptures-History Book have no business tampering with the number, arrangement and position of the original books, relegating and elevating Daniel to one of Israel’s “major” prophets. READ that long sentence again!

So now, this discovery is so new to us, we have to reread and restudy the book of Daniel with a totally different approach.

Give us time, we’ll get to this book eventually and provide the “A” part. But in the meantime, check out this post:

A Literary Approach to the Book of Daniel

It has everything you need to know about Daniel; in fact, it saves us from writing the “A” part to this “Q”.

Source: Exodus/Shemoth 24 – "the sight of the Glory of YHVH (was) like a consuming fire" -- We gentiles living in this 21st century are able to experience that climactic moment [God appearing on Sinai] by reading and studying this portion of the TORAH. Indeed, we see YHWH not quite as dramatically as the mixed multitude did, but perhaps even better through these accounts recorded in Exodus. There is a saying that hindsight is 20/20 vision, i.e., we begin to see and understand the question marks in our past only later in our lives, as we mature and hopefully become wiser and more introspective about the meaning or seeming meaninglessness of happenings in history, whether personal, national, or universal. Søren Kierkegaard adds a twist to this: “Only 20:20 vision is hindsight. Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” As we endeavor to understand each portion in the TORAH of YHWH, much of it will seem irrelevant to our current situation but if we see beyond the time-bound cultural and religious situations and begin to understand what truly has not change—human nature and the Great Revelator who designed the perfect blueprint for living in peace, happily and contentedly with family, community, country and the nations, the unquestionable conclusion is: TORAH is relevant to ALL humankind, not just to Israel, to this very day.

Reader Comments

ronnel says:
December 2, 2012 at 5:42 pm
thanks for the answer.. I’ll still study further ragarding this matter by getting more commentaries from Christians and Messianic and Judaism for comparison purposes.. Anyway, a big thahks. This will help me. Shalom
.. uhm.. just to inform. I can’t open my e-mail, I think it has expired already because of not opening it for many months. Need to make another one.. thanks

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