Genesis/Bereshith 11:10-32 – From Shem to Avram

[Regular commentary is from Pentateuch and Haftorahs, ed. Dr. J.H. Hertz; translation is Everett Fox, The Five Books of Moses, with commentary indicated by “EF”; additional commentary from Robert Alter, The Five Books of Moses, indicated by “RA.”–Admin1.]

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[RA]  10-26.  There are ten generations from Shem to Abraham (as the universal history begins to focus down to a national history) as there are ten from Adam to Noah.  In another formal symmetry, the ten antediluvian generations end with a father who begets three sons, just as this series of ten will end with Terah begetting Abram, Nahor, and Haran.  This genealogy, which constitutes the bridge from the Flood to the beginning of the Patriarchal Tales, uses formulas identical with those of the antediluvian genealogy in Chapter 5, omitting the summarizing indication of life span and the report of death of each begetter.  Longevity is now cut in half, and then halved again in the latter part of the list, as we approach Abram  From this point, men will have merely the extraordinary life spans of modern Caucasian mountain dwellers and not legendary life spans.  The narrative in this way is preparing to enter recognizable human time and family life.  There is one hidden number-game here, as the Israeli Bible scholar Moshe Weinfeld has observed:  the number of years from the birth of Shem’s son to Abram’s migration to Canaan is exactly a solar 365.

After the tower of Babel episode, the names of Shem’s descendants are listed, ending with Terach, the father of Abraham:  

10  These are the begettings of Shem:  
Shem was a hundred years old, then he begot Arpakhshad, two years after the Deluge,

these are the generations.  This new section, leaving Universal History behind, reverts to the main purpose of the First Book of the Torah, which is that of giving a complete account of the founders of the Hebrew race, viz. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their children.  Abram is traced back through ten successive generations to Shem, the son of Noah.

[EF]  two years after the Deluge: Possibly a typical popular way of telling time (see Amos I:1, “two years after the earthquake”)

11  and Shem lived after he begot Arpakhshad five hundred year, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
12  Arpakhshad lived thirty-five years then he begot Shelah,
13  and Arpakhshad lived after he begot Shelah three years and four hundred years, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
14  Shelah lived thirty years, then he begot Ever, 
15  and Shelah lived after he begot Ever three years and four hundred years, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
16  When Ever had lived thirty-four years, he begot Peleg,

Peleg.  See X,25.  The descendants of Peleg were omitted from the former chapter because they were to be mentioned here.

17 and Ever lived after he begot Peleg thirty years and four hundred years, and begot other (sons) and daughters.
18  When Peleg had lived thirty years, he begot Re’u,
19  and Peleg lived after he begot Re’u nine years and two hundred years, and begot other (sons) and daughters.
20  When Re’u had lived thirty-two years, he begot Serug,
21  and Re’u lived after he begot Serug seven years and two hundred years, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
22  When Serug had lived thirty years, he begot Nahor.
23  and Serug lived after he begot Nahor two hundred years, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
24  When Nahor had lived twenty-nine years, he begot Terah,
25  and Nahor lived after he begot Terah nineteen years and a hundred years, and begot (other) sons and daughters.
Graphics from inmydaysascripturejourney.blogspot.com

26  When Terah had lived seventy years, he begot Avram, Nahor, and Haran.

Abram.  The name was in common use at Babylon.  ’Abi-rama’ is a witness to a Babylonian deed long before the days of Abraham.

[EF] Avram: Trad. English, “Abram.”

[RA] 27-32.  This is a second genealogical document, using different language, and zeroing in on Abram’s immediate family and its migrations.

27  Now these are the begettings of Terah:  
Terah begot Avram, Nahor, and Haran:
and Haran begot Lot.

28  Haran died in the living-presence of Terah his father in the land of his kindred, in Ur of the Chaldeans.

in the presence of. During his father’s lifetime.

[EF] in the living-presence of Terah his father: During his father’s lifetime.

Ur of the Chaldees.  Usually identified with Mugheir, a town in the Euphrates some distance east of its junction with the Tigris.  The name Ur occurs in the inscriptions in the form Uru, which was one of the old Babylonian royal towns and a centre of the moon-god worship.  Astounding discoveries have in recent years been made, and are still being made, in its ruins.  These enable us to have a vivid picture of contemporary life in the native city of Abraham.

Chaldees.  Is often used in the Bible as a synonym for Babylonians.

29  Avram and Nahor took themselves wives;
the name of Avram’s wife was Sarai,
the name of Nahor’s wife was Milca—daughter of Haran, father of Milca and father of Yisca.

Sarai.  The personal names ‘Sarai’ and ‘Nahor’ also occur in Babylonian inscriptions.

Milcah. The importance of mentioning her lies in the fact that she was the ancestress of Rebekah, the wife of Isaac (XXII,20;XXIV,15).

Iscah. This name is the basis for the Shakespearean name Jessica.

30  Now Sarai was barren, she had no child.

[EF] barren, she had no child: This doubling is characteristic of biblical style (formal poetry in the Bible was parallelism of lines).

31  Terah took Avram his son and Lot son of Haran, his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, wife of Avram his son,
they set out together from Ur of the Chaldeans, to go to the land of Canaan.
 But when they had come as far as Harran they settled there.

Haran. A town on the highway from Mesopotamia to the West; the converging point f the commercial routes from Babylon in the south, Nineveh in the East, and Damascus in the West.

[EF] Harran: An important city and center of moon worship, like Ur.  The name means “crossroads.”

[RA] he set out with them. Two small changes in the vocalization of the two Hebrew words here yield “he took them out with him.”  This is the reading of the Septuagint and the Samaritan Version.

Haran. In the Hebrew there is no confusion with the name of Abram’s deceased brother, because the latter begins with an aspirated heh, the former with a fricative et.

32  And the days of Terah were five years and two hundred years,
then Terah died,
in Harran.

The death of Terah did not take place till sixty years after Abram had left Haran; but it is recorded here to complete the story of Terah and thus concentrate on the life of Abram.

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S6K:   If we gather information from the text alone (vs. 24-32), note the following:

  • Terach initiates the move from Ur of the Chaldees to head for the land of Canaan, with his family in tow. Why he decides to make such a move is not explained.
  • Family being: Abram and Saray, Lot the grandson from 2nd son Charan who dies, 3rd son Nachor and Milkah.
  • Nothing in the text says anything about Terach being an idol maker although we can presume the whole inhabited world at that time must have been idolatrous, since the whole plan of the Creator from the beginning is to make Himself known to ignorant man who keeps looking for Him in all the wrong places and mistaking every phenomenon of nature as Him or caused by Him.  Hence, in this cultural context idol making would have been a lucrative business but whether Terach was indeed an idol-maker, that didn’t come from this text.
  • They never reach Canaan and instead settle in Charan, no reason is given.
  • Terach dies in Charan, perhaps that’s the clue, he’s too old to go any further, but this is just speculation.
  • It is possible the surviving family of Terach would have settled permanently in Charan even after Terach’s death, specially if they had established themselves.
  • Hence, for Abraham to continue the journey Terach had set out to do would have been a sentimental journey to finish what his father had started, but this is again, speculation.
  • What does move Abraham to continue the journey is the divine call.

 

 

 

Must Download: Free ebook on Jewish History

Don’t pass up this opportunity to get a free copy of this excellent book; it is downloadable from amazon.com on the kindle app; if you don’t have a kindle, just download the kindle app, also a download from amazon.com.   Not because it is free but because it is a treasure find, worth the read!

 
 

The title is:  JEWISH HISTORY: An Essay in the Philosophy of History

[English translation based upon the authorized German translation, which was made from the original Russian; published under the joint auspices of the Jewish Publication Society of America and the Jewish Historical Society of England, H.S.]

 
 

The author:  S.M [Simon Markovich] Dubnow/1860-1941

A word about the author: “a scholar by profession, whose foremost concern is with historical truth, and whose every statement rests upon accurate, scientific knowledge; not a bookworm with pale academic blood trickling through his veins, but a man who, with unsoured mien, with fresh buoyant delight, offers the world the results laboriously reached in his study, after all evidences of toil and moil have been carefully removed; who derives inspiration from the noble and the sublime in whatever guise it may appear, and who knows how to communicate his inspiration to others.”

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Introductory Note

What is Jewish History? In the first place, what does it offer as to quantity and as to quality?  What are its range and content, and what distinguishes it in these two respects from the history of other nations?  Furthermore, what is the essential meaning, what the spirit, of Jewish History?  Or, to put the question in another way, to what general results are we led by the aggregate of its facts, considered, not as a whole, but genetically, as a succession of evolutionary stages in the consciousness and education of the Jewish people?

 
 

If we could find precise answers to these several questions, they would constitute a characterization of Jewish History as accurate as is attainable.  To present such a characterization succinctly is the purpose of the following essay.

 
 

Table of Contents

I  The Range of Jewish History

  • Historical and Unhistorical Peoples
  • Three Groups of Nations
  • The “Most Historical” People
  • Extent of Jewish History

II  The Content of Jewish History

  • Two Periods of Jewish History
  • The Period of Independence
  • The Election of the Jewish People
  • Priests and Prophets
  • The Babylonian Exile and the Scribes
  • The Dispersion
  • Jewish History and Universal History
  • Jewish History Characterized

iii The Significance of Jewish History

  • The National Aspect of Jewish History
  • The Historical Consciousness
  • The National Idea and National Feeling
  • The Universal Aspect of Jewish History
  • An Historical Experiment
  • A Moral Discipline
  • Humanitarian Significance of Jewish History
  • Schleiden and George Eliot

IV  The Historical Synthesis

  • Three Primary Periods
  • Four Composite Periods

V The Primary or Biblical Period

  • Cosmic Origin of the Jewish Religion
  • Tribal Organization
  • Egyptian Influence and Experiences
  • Moses
  • Mosaism, a Religious and Moral as well as a Social and Political System
  • National Deities
  • The Prophets and the Two Kingdoms
  • Judaism, a Universal Religion

VI  The Secondary or Spiritual-Political Period

  • Growth of National Feeling
  • Ezra and Nehemiah
  • The Scribes
  • Hellenism
  • The Maccabeees
  • Sadducees, Pharisees,, and Essenes
  • Alexandrian Jews
  • Christianity

VII  The Tertiary Talmudic or National-Religious Period

  • The Isolation of Jewry and Judaism
  • The Mishna
  • The Talmud
  • Intellectual Activity in Palestine and Babylonia
  • The Agada and the Midrash
  • Unification of Judaism

VIII The Gaonic Period, or the Hegemony of the Oriental Jews (500-980)

  • The Academies
  • Islam
  • Karaism
  • Beginning of Persecutions in Europe
  • Arabic Civilization in Europe

IX  The Rabbinic-Philosophical Period, or the Hegemony of the Spanish Jews (980-1492)

  • The Spanish Jews
  • The Arabic-Jewish Renaissance
  • The Crusades and the Jews
  • Degradation of the Jews in Christian Europe
  • The Provence
  • The Lateran Council
  • The Kabbala Expulsion from Spain

X The Rabbinic-Mystical Period, or The Hegemony of the German-Polish Jews (1492-1789)

  • The Humanists and the Reformation
  • Palestine
  • An Asylum for Jews
  • Messianic Belief and Hopes
  • Holland, a Jewish Centre
  • Poland and the Jews
  • The Rabbinical Authorities of Poland
  • Isolation of the Polish Jews
  • Mysticism and the Practical Kabbala
  • Chassidism Persecutions and Morbid Piety

XI The Modern Period of Enlightenment (The 19th Century)

  • The French Revolution
  • The Jewish Middle Ages
  • Spiritual and Civil Emancipation
  • The Successors of Mendelssohn
  • Zunz and the Science of Judaism
  • The Modern Movements outside of Germany
  • The Jew in Russia
  • His Regeration
  • Anti-Semitism and Judophobia

Xii  The Teachings of Jewish History

  • Jewry, a Spiritual Community
  • Jewry, Indestructile
  • The Creative Principle of Jewry
  • The Task of the Future
  • The Jew and the Nations
  • The Ultimate Ideal


 

 

Discourse – Christian to Sinaite/Sinaite to Christian- 14

[Continuing the exchange between Sinaite BAN@S6K and her long-time missionary friend “CF” who first converted her from her Catholic faith to evangelical Christianity, hereunder are:  CF’s latest email dated July 17, and BAN’s response to “CF” dated July 21–Admin1.]

 

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“Starting from Scratch”

 

 

My much loved BAN and VAN,

 

In working through our ongoing conversation of greatest importance, I ask:

 

  • From what overriding and infallible research does John Tabor base his exclusion of the New Testament as part of the inspired Word of God?
  • Where is the grave of Jesus where historians have confidence his body lay? Where are their proofs of such?  In other words would it not be to the advantage of the unbelievers to conclusively prove his death and burial without resurrection?
  • What will cleanse us from sin in place of the sacrifice required under the law?

 

Waiting for your response and continuing to pray for you to know the truth.

 

 

Love,

CF

 

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My dear CF,

 

I do want to correct your impression that James Tabor’s book had influenced me in making my spiritual decision.  My decision was made much earlier.  I read the book months after.  James Tabor did not influence me at all.  Though when I read the book, I did agree with him on most of what he wrote.

 

I do think that being a student of antiquity, he is interested in finding where the grave of Jesus was which, I believe, he will never find, two thousand years after the fact.  For, first of all, who would even take the trouble during Jesus’ time to put a mark on his grave for posterity.  No one of his disciples ever thought that Christianity would emerge because of him.  Jesus taught the Torah and always advocated obedience to it.  He was a Jew, lived as a Jew, and worshipped as a Jew.  He was the epitome of what a Torah believer was.

 

With regard to where Tabor based his exclusion of the New Testament as part of the “inspired word of God,” this is no mystery at all.  All one has to do is look into historical records on how the New Testament came about.  It is recorded in church history.

 

For me, the issue is, what did the Lord reveal of Himself in the Old Testament?  And does the Old Testament validate what is written in the New?  The Old Testament is the foundation of our faith in the One True God.  It does not need the New Testament to validate what it says.

 

Can the New Testament stand on its own merit?  How can we accept the fact that more than 700 years after the last book of the Old Testament was written, a new set of books would be given the same status as the Old Testament by men whose lives were not godly at all.  And whose agenda was mostly for political power?  Church history records that the canonization of the New Testament was done through the votes of the early Church Fathers in the Council of Nicea and the votes for canonicity won by a mere 5 votes! This is how the New Testament was declared “the inspired word of God.”  INCREDIBLE!

 

I guess, CF, for all of us, our spiritual life is a journey.  We know what our goal is, where we want to go.  There are many stations where we stop and sometimes, we get to be too comfortable in the station where we are that we fail to go further.  Let us not let these stops derail our journey.

 

Love you and praying that the One True God Whose Name is YHWH lead us where He wants us to go.

 

 

BAN@S6K

logo Next: Discourse – Christian to Sinaite, back to Christian – 15

 

Must Read: A.D. 381: Heretics, Pagans, and the Dawn of the Monotheistic State by Charles Freeman

[This book is the 3rd book by Charles Freeman that we are recommending for background reading on the beginnings of Christianity.  It is available in ebook form and is downloadable on the kindle app from amazon.com.  Here are some 3 reviews that give you an idea of what to expect.]

Book Description

Publication Date: February 5, 2009
A provoking and timely examination of one of the most important times in Church history
In AD 381, Theodosius, emperor of the eastern Roman empire, issued a decree in which all his subjects were required to subscribe to a belief in the Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This edict defined Christian orthodoxy and brought to an end a lively and wide-ranging debate about the nature of God; all other interpretations were now declared heretical. It was the first time in a thousand years of Greco-Roman civilization free thought was unambiguously suppressed. Yet surprisingly, the popular histories claim that the Christian Church reached a consensus on the Trinity at the Council of Constantinople in AD 381. Why has Theodosius’s revolution been airbrushed from the historical record?

In this groundbreaking new book, acclaimed historian Charles Freeman shows that the council was in fact a sham, only taking place after Theodosius’s decree had become law. The Church was acquiescing in the overwhelming power of the emperor. Freeman argues that Theodosius’s edict and the subsequent suppression of paganism not only brought an end to the diversity of religious and philosophical beliefs throughout the empire, but created numerous theological problems for the Church, which have remained unsolved. The year AD 381, as Freeman puts it, was “a turning point which time forgot.”

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BOOK REVIEWS
Format:Hardcover|Amazon Verified Purchase
AD 381 refers to the year in which Emperor Theodosius I announced a new law requiring his subjects in the Roman world to believe in the Trinity. In promulgating this law, the Emperor hoped to settle a vexatious issue and restore law and order in his realms. Law and order was restored, after a fashion, but at the cost of massive persecutions not just of non-believers but also of Christians who held different views on the nature of Christ and his relationship to God and the Holy Spirit than those codified at the Council of Nicaea. This more hostile religious climate, very different from the tolerance which prevailed before Christianity became the dominant Roman religion, prevailed through the next millenium and beyond and still has an impact on us today.Charles Freeman has done an excellent job of describing the confusing theological climate which prevailed in the centuries after Jesus’ death and the beginning of Christianity. Christians agreed on little or nothing, it seemed, until their religion gained legal acceptance and then official status. Then political leaders, aided and abetted by sometimes unscrupulous bishops and priests, sought to make sense out of the confusion and come up with a single theology which all Christians were bound to accept. Freeman recreates the personalities of politicians like Constantine, Theodosius, and the many other Emperors, as well as those of Church leaders like Ambrose and Augustine, and helps us understand how they contributed to what became established Christian dogma on the Trinity. I found particularly interesting his final chapters, in which he traces the official Christian teachings through the European Middle Ages. I was intrigued, as well, by his chapters in which he traced connections between Christianity and Plato and Aristotle.This is a scholarly work which is accessible to non-specialist readers. It helped me better understand some of the underpinnings and rationales behind Chrstianity as we know it today, and the “other” Christianities which were pushed to the sidelines.
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Format:Paperback|Amazon Verified Purchase

_A.D. 381_ takes its name from the Second Ecumenical Council (the Council of Constantinople) which confirmed the Nicene Creed. It was also a major step in the consolidation of relations between the Christian church and the Roman state. Freeman convincingly argues that this council (and the Roman Emperor, Theodosius who convened it) conscienciously began to narrow not only Church dogma, but the intellectucal life of Europe as well, with profound and long-lasting consequences. That there were wildly differing interpretations of Christianity in the late Roman Empire is hardly news to any historian worth their salt. What Freeman does is explain cogently what many of these interpretations (and their related sects) were, why they were considered “heretical” (“heresis” in Greek was not a pejorative, but rather simply meant “choice” – as in choice of philosophical school to which one subscribed), and how they were evenually snuffed out. At the root of the challenge presented to those who wished to impose orthodoxy was a legacy of 1500 years of independent, critical thought in the Mediterranean world, and a culture of lively theological discussion on matters relating to Christianity as a result. Central to these debates was the question of the trinity and, by extension, the nature of Jesus and the relationship among the trinty relative to the Godhead. (The Nicene Creed, for example, holds that God the Father and Jesus are of the same substance, yet there is no scriptural support for this. Matters are complicated further when one tries to consider that “substance” raises the question of how can God the Father be material, and whether or not Jesus had always existed alongside God, or whether Jesus was a separate creation – and therefore a later and lesser incarnation.)Freeman shows how the independent thought of the Classical world was gradually replaced with a more authoritarian attitude towards learning. This, of course, was concurrent with the gradual econcomic decay of Rome (in the West especially) and the accompanying political implosion as Roman administration slowly gave way to “barbarian” control and ecumenical administration. In fact, Emperors saw the Church increasingly as a basis of support in an increasingly chaotic world just as early Church fathers saw Rome as the force of law to impose their version of Christianity. An example of this (and an irony) is how “Jesus the executed outlaw” became “Jesus leader of legions” – evidence of the growing integration of Church into imperial politics.In spite of a flurry of edicts by Roman emperors to eliminate paganism and destroy “heretical” interpretations of Christian dogma, it proved a slow and difficult task, particularly so in the more literate East. Nonetheless, by 535 all vestiges of paganism had been destroyed (the last Egyptian temple closed in 526, Plato’s Academy shut down in 529) and most of the competing versions of Christianity were done away with. It wouldn’t be until the 16th century that a rebirth of and interest in Christian dogma would be so ardently and passionately discussed, with profound consequences for Europe.For such an abtruse subject that addresses deep philosophical questions, this is a remarkably accessble work. Freeman is clear and easy to understand, providing a wealth of additional information (about, for example, imperial Roman provincial adminstration) that helps clarify the evidence he is presenting. Of additional benefit is the bibliography, which is both current and (via his end notes) annotated. Highly recommended for those interested in Christian theology, late Classical history, or the early Middle Ages.

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Format:Hardcover

Charles Freeman’s “A.D.381″ is an interesting and engaging historical examination of the relatively over-looked period during which Christianity consolidated its hold over the Roman Empire. It is unfortunately marked by an ideological debt to Edward Gibbons’ thesis that the Fall of Rome was the triumph of barbarism and Christianity.”A.D. 381” is quite excellent in looking at the players and events that often remain obscure in most histories of the late Roman Empire, namely, how Christianity went from a tolerated religion under Constantine to the only lawful religion within a century. Most people with a basic familiarity of the subject can identify Constantine, the Council of Nicea and 325, but probably don’t know that Council of Nicea under Constantine was only the beginning of Christian influence over the Roman Empire. But it was not until the last decades of the Fourth Century that both paganism and heretical – i.e., non-Nicene Christianity – were outlawed and one form of Christianity, which defined the persons of the Trinity as being “consubstantial,” emerged as the only legal religion in the Empire. Hence, the date 381 marks the date of the Council of Constantinople which was called by the Emperor Theodosius to confirm the Nicene Creed and put an end to the dispute between followers of the Nicene Creed and those Christians who viewed Jesus Christ as a lesser, created, divinity, including the Arians and other “subordinationists.”Freeman’s valid thesis – which he establishes in detail – is that theological developments can not be removed from the brute social facts in which the theology developed. So, as he remarks in the close of “381,” while some theologians want to treat the development of Christian doctrine as the bloodless, intellectual development of conclusions from core Christian premises, the historical fact is that the development of Christian doctrine involved politicking, trickery, bullying and just plain chance.A key example of chance is found in the life of Theodosius himself. Prior to Theodosius, Roman Emperors had been generally content not to take a too pious view of their jobs as Christian emperors and to hold off on baptism, which might require that they become pious carrying out their duties as Christian emperors, until they were facing death itself, the “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” clause being the ultimate “get out of jail” card. Theodosius seemed to be following this script until 38 AD, when after being baptized in the face of a life-threatening illness, something messed up the script – he lived. At that point, he had a problem; he was a baptized Roman emperor who could not turn a pragmatically blind eye to the problem of heresy.Because of this historical accident, Nicene Christianity became hegemonic as Theodosius outlawed paganism and called the Council of Constantinople in 381 to ratify the Nicene Creed. Once the Nicene Creed was ratified by the Council, Theodosius then put an end to the long Nicene-Arian controversy that had divided Christianity in the Roman Empire by removing Arian bishops from the seats of power.

 

What followed, according to Freeman, was the “closing of the Western Mind,” which is the title of Freeman’s better-known, earlier book. This was the result, according to Freeman, of the repudiation of the ancient Greek ideal of free speech, something which Freeman drops in periodically as a chorale note throughout the book, at which point, presumably, the reader is supposed to nod his head in agreement, knowing that Christianity was a victory for the forces of “faith” against that of “reason.”

Unfortunately, those Gibbons-like notes are where Freeman’s book went off track for me. I had to wonder where the discussion of the ascendancy of the Arian emperors during the period between 325 and 381 was to be found. I wondered what Freeman’s explanation was for Theodosius’ ability to so thoroughly win the day for the Nicene Creeds, when earlier emperors were not able to put their Arian Creed into a hegemonic position in Christianity. I also wondered what Freeman’s explanation would be for the inability of Imperial power to deal with the Monophysite schism in the same way that it had dealt with the Arian schism.

In short, I formed the impression that Freeman was cherry-picking his facts and arguments to favor his thesis that Christian theology was dictated and enforced from the top down. It seems to me that this other perspective on history suggests that the “grass roots” did have a lot of influence over how history played out. For example, in his discussion of Augustine, Freeman reveals the thesis of his book as the proposition that the Nicene doctrine became orthodox only because it was enforced by the state. But in order to prove that thesis, then a discussion of why the Arian emperors were unable to impose Arianism, or the Chalcedonian emperors were unable to Chalcedonianism on the Monophysite areas of the Empire seems required. Freeman doesn’t discuss these counter-examples, which seem to allow the conclusion that the Nicene doctrine may have been successfully enforced by the state because it was orthodox.

 

In short, it seemed that Freeman was adopting a strategy that unfortunately plays out in too many books where someone has an antipathy for history as it turned out, but they don’t deal with inconvenient counter-facts. When an author fails to deal with such counter-examples, it leaves the impression that he is engaged in polemics and propaganda aimed at taking advantage of readers who don’t already know all the facts. That conclusion is reinforced by some of the polemical reviews of this book that, for example, equate Athanasius with “Rush Limbaugh.”

 

Likewise, although I’m sure that Freeman has developed the theme of how the “Western Mind” became “closed” in his prior book, I have to wonder what he meant by that term in the context of this book. He quotes pagan panegyrics to emperors which had spoken out in favor of free speech as an example of how there was a tradition of free speech and free debate in the ancient world. However, does he really expect us to believe that there were not some issues that were off limits in the ancient world, such as whether emperors were really divine, or whether emperors were really the font of all grace and wisdom? One rather doubts it.

 

Also, are we supposed to believe that free speech and debate came to a complete close after the Council of Constantinople decided in re-affirmed the Nicene position? If so, why were there all those controversies in the following centuries over Monophystism, Nestorianism, Monergism, etc., etc.? Did those controversies not involve a high order of logic and reason?

 

 

But Freeman doesn’t discuss those issues, choosing instead to leave the reader to believe a caricature of the intellectual life of late antiquity that could have been picked out of any book on the fictional war of religion against science. Again, that approach does the reader a disservice.

 

 

My sense was that by emphasizing the facts of politics and personalities, Freeman was able to play up the discontinuity and contingency of history. However, while Freeman was very good with the details of the politics and personalities – albeit with a generally hostile interpretation of historical characters such as Ambrose and Augustine – he ignored his own prescription that the actual facts of history be examined in their historical context. Among those facts are certainly the principles and logic that the historical characters believed that they were applying to the theological disputes that they were involved with. Freeman rarely discussed why the historical figures that he analyzed believed what they believed. By ignoring the elements of the theological principles and logic, Freeman seems to have inappropriately underemphasized the element of theological continuity and the deep roots of the theological doctrines at issue in the theological disputes of late antiquity.

 

 

I do recommend “381.” It is an engaging read and does provide the reader with an excellent overview of, and insight into, a bit of history that we often overlook and may not understand as well as we should. For example, I knew about the story of Ambrose’s confrontation with Theodosius over the slaughter of citizens of Thessalonica, but Freeman’s book is the first time I ever learned about the details surrounding that historical event, even if Freeman manages to “tee up” this historic moment when a Roman Emperor was forced to acknowledge a power greater than himself as an example of Ambrose’s megalomania.

 

I would, however, recommend The Spirit of Early Christian Thought: Seeking the Face of God by Robert Louis Wilkens to see the elements of continuity and reason that informed early Christian theology.

 

Discourse: Sinaite to Christian – 13

[Discourse 1-12 have so far been between BAN@S6K and her missionary friend. This continues that exchange though this reply is written by VAN@S6K, husband of BAN; together they were converted from Catholicism to evangelical Christianity by the missionary couple involved in this series of exchanges.–Admin1.]

 

 

——————–

 

 

I have been reading your exchange of emails with [BAN@S6K] and I am happy that so far, you have kept it on the intellectual level —pray it will stay that way.  Let us keep our hearts where it should be — our love for one another.

 

For my part of the story, let me start from the beginning of my search for God.  Of course, you know that I was born into a Catholic religious tradition —well, almost all Filipinos are that way.  We worship the ‘Blessed Virgin’, the ‘mother of God’ to get to Jesus, ‘the son of God’, to get to ‘God the Father’, ultimately.  I grew up with this religious belief handed down to me by my mother.  This changed when God took my father away whom I loved so much.  He was not only a father to me, he was also a brother, and a friend.  This I resented very much.  How can a loving God take someone whom I loved so much?  This was the beginning of my search for the one true God. The first stage.

 

When we moved to Victoria Valley, we met you.  You introduced us to the Bible and to Jesus, as Lord and Savior.  This started my interest in the study of the Bible.  You encouraged me to even go to a Bible seminary, which I did.  This gave me a new perspective in my search for God.  You know the rest.  The second stage.

 

When we moved to Baguio City, there I met another Bible teacher who introduced us to Messianic Christianity — going back to our “Hebrew roots.”  Here we were taught the Hebrew Scriptures, TORAH (five books of Moses), the Prophets, and the Writings.  These are the Scriptures, the TORAH, that Jesus taught his disciples.  He observed the Sabbath and the biblical festivals.  He taught the disciples to obey the commandments.  He lived a TORAH lifestyle.  Our Bible teacher also taught us to think Jewish to enable us to understand the Hebrew mind, and to better understand the Hebrew (OT) Scriptures.  As messianic Christians, we observed the Sabbath and the biblical festivals, adjusted to kosher food, and followed Jewish liturgy as much as possible. However, we still believed Jesus as part of the Triune God, who is coming again.

 

In observing the Sabbath, we would go through the Scriptures, portion by portion, which enabled us to read through the TORAH, the five books of Moses, within a period of one year.  As one of the elders of the messianic community, I took my turn in teaching and facilitating the study of the portion assigned on that Sabbath.  

 

At the time my turn came, the portion assigned for that Sabbath was Exodus 10:1-13:16 which covers the Passover.  As I was studying this portion of the TORAH in preparation for the Sabbath, I could not understand why, for the first time, after seven years of studying the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) that the apostle John in the NT pointed to Jesus as the lamb in the Passover.  The Scriptures tell us that God’s wrath was to fall

 

” . . .on all the first born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments, I am the LORD” (Exodus 12:13, NASB) [underscoring mine].  

 

The Scriptures also tell us that Joseph told his father Jacob and his brothers that when Pharaoh asks ‘what is your occupation’, they shall say that they are keepers of livestock from their youth that they may live in Goshen; “for every shepherd is loathsome to the Egyptians” (Genesis 46:33-34; underscoring mine).  Why ‘loathsome’?  Because the sheep or goat is sacred to the Egyptians, as it is one of their gods.  So, why make Jesus the Passover lamb?  And why did God offer Jesus to die for our sins when God hates human sacrifice?  This is an abomination to God (Deuteronomy 12:29-31).  Has God now changed His mind?  Or, just maybe, the apostolic writers, if they were Jews, forgot their Scriptures?  Or, again, just maybe, they were not Jews?

 

So, if you ask me now, what is the source of my faith?  I would say the Hebrew Scriptures (OT).  Why?  Because it is trustworthy, complete, nothing to add to, nothing to take away from (Deuteronomy 4:2).  And who is my God?  His name is YAHWEH (YHVH) [Exodus 3:14-15].  He is the God of Abraham and the God of Moses.  He is the God of Creation, the God of the Scriptures, THE ONE TRUE GOD.

I have no more resentment toward YAHWEH for having taken my father whom I loved so much, because knowing Him now is to love Him with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my might —with everything I have!  This is the fourth and the last stage.

 

I want you to know that I think of you [both]; you have always been there for me. You have given me comfort when I needed it — even your “shoulders” to cry on, specially during the time when my mother died.  Remember?

 

Both of you — and even your children— have become and will always be part of our lives.  I certainly thank YAHWEH for that!  [BAN] and I will always love you both and continue to remember you in our prayers.

 

 

VAN@S6K

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Next:  Discourse – Christian to Sinaite, back to Christian- 14

July 4: THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

[Hi Sinaites,

We are celebrating the 4th of July today here in the US.  I don’t know why but in the spirit of freedom, I was prompted to read on some works of this great author of the US Declaration of Independence who was none other than the 3rd American President Thomas Jefferson.  Staying in Virginia with our son and family at this time, let me share with you the mind of this great Virginian as per attached articles. 

How liberating indeed!  Enjoy!

In Adonai’s peace,

SMK@S6K]

 THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

Compiled by Jim Walker

 

“Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.”

-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)


In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

 

Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

 

Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word “God” embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson’s words engraved: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” When they see the word “God” many Christians see this as “proof” of his Christianity without thinking that “God” can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson’s God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush’s warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:

“The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . .”

 

Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.

 

If anything can clear of the misconceptions of Jeffersonian history, it can come best from the author himself. Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.


Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


What is it men cannot be made to believe!

-Thomas Jefferson to Richard Henry Lee, April 22, 1786. (on the British regarding America, but quoted here for its universal appeal.)


Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787


Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom


I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote “Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?”)


I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789


They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.

-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800


Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802


History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.


The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814


Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814


In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814


If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? …Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816


My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816


You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, June 25, 1819


As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819


Priests…dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820


Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820


To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820


Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.


I can never join Calvin in addressing his god. He was indeed an Atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshipped a false god, he did.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825


May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826 (in the last letter he penned)


Bibliography (click on an underlined book title if you’d like to obtain it):

Merrill D. Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson Writings, (The Library of America,1984)

O.I.A. Roche, ed, The Jefferson Bible: with the Annotated Commentaries on Religion of Thomas Jefferson, (Clarkson N. Potter, Inc., 1964)

Dickinson W. Adams, ed, et al, The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Second Series (Princeton University Press, 1983)

Lester J. Cappon, ed, The Adams-Jefferson Letters, Vol. 2,(The University of North Carolina Press, 1959)

Alf J. Mapp, Jr., Thomas Jefferson, A Strange Case of Mistaken Identity, (Madison Books, 1987)

Julian P. Boyd, ed, The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, (Princeton University Press 1950–)

A.A. Lipscomb, Albert E. Bergh, eds. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1903-1904)

——

For other quotes on the internet see:

The Letters of Thomas Jefferson: 1743-1826

 

Discourse: Christian to Sinaite – 12

[East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.  TNK is TNK and NT is NT  and as long as the Sinaite is basing her arguments upon TNK while the Christian is arguing from NT, they will never come to an agreement.  Best to remain friends and respect each other’s chosen pathway because they will never see eye to eye!  Continuing the email exchange between BAN@S6K and her missionary friend, here is the Christian response to BAN’s #11.–Admin1.]

 

——————

 

Dear [BAN@S6K] 

 

The one unanswered question is still who is/was Jesus. Please tell me your answer.
 
As to the questions posed in your letter, they are answered in the New Testament which you disavow.

 

I, along with numerous scholars past and present have every reason to believe in the inspiration of the New Testament. In researching its veracity, the internet has much information. I could give you names of many books written to debate that point of view. However, I see you are convinced by John Tabor’s recent writing that it is not.

 

Using what I cherish as the word Of God: Matthew 17:5. Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35 have God proclaiming who Jesus is, namely God’s beloved Son to whom we are to listen.

 

Where does the Holy spirit fit into your idea of one God? Is He not a “person” of God? He is talked of and “his work” explained in the O.T. narratives. In those days, He came and went but now abides in the believer.

 

What will replace the sacrifice for your sins since we are told that—“without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.”
God required it of his people.  There is no Savior but God who came in human flesh  “to show us the Father”  and as In Hebrews came to offer Himself, once for all …”

 

 

John 3:16 

“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.”  

 

 

(I am a mother, daughter and wife all in one.) God is One in 3 persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

 

I am at a loss to go further in my case as I believe you are settled in yours. I am praying for God’s mercy in granting you a view of Him as depicted in the whole revelation of His Word. We are told not to take from or add to it in the last book- Revelation 22:18-21 I also know no arguments put forth which will bring you to Jesus but only His precious  Holy Spirit.

 

 

Lovingly and prayerfully,
 

 

[Name Withheld]

 

Discourse: Sinaite to Christian – 11

[Continuing the Discourse between BAN@S6K and her missionary friend, this is BAN’s reply to #10].

 

—————–

 

Hi [name witheld],

 

 

There is really no need for clarifications from you.  I know  you love the Bible and studying  it, is a part of you.  I know you love the LORD and HIS people.  You and [your husband], to me and VAN are a living testimony of what it is to live godly lives.

 

And yes, how we perceive Jesus is what divides us now theologically.  I have made known to you my convictions on this matter in my previous email.  I respect your convictions and if you are convinced  there is no need to explore and research regarding this, so be it.  As for me, I will continue to explore and search for truth as long as I live.


There is an old prayer which my study group prays all the time as we search for truth, and I would like to share it with you.  It goes this way,

 

FROM THE COWARDICE THAT SHIRKS FROM NEW TRUTH,
FROM THE LAZINESS THAT IS CONTENT WITH OLD TRUTH,
FROM THE ARROGANCE THAT THINKS IT KNOWS ALL THE TRUTH,
O GOD OF TRUTH, DELIVER US.

 

Allow me to just make some brief comments on some points you have made:

1.  I have put my trust in HIS substitutionary  death for my sin.

 

 From what I have learned from the Old Testament, God declares in Isaiah 3: 10-11 which says,
I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no saviour.  

 

2.  I have walked and talked with him for over 70 years. 

 

—This is your experience and I do not doubt it at all.

 

With regards to your points, nos. 3-6,  I do have some thoughts on it from the perspective of a Torah believer.  I hope what I have to say will make some sense .  It is not my desire to change your convictions on what you believe.  I am just stating my thoughts on the points you have raised and it might also answer some questions not stated.


Your statements touches on some  conditions deeply rooted in the heart of most believers.   In my past experience as an evangelical Christian,  I have heard a lot of testimonies from old and newly born-again believers, filled with a lot of personal stories about how their lives were miraculously changed as a result of their  faith or new-found faith.  Many  testimonies of these new believers, described how their immoral lives, alcoholism or drug  and other addictions  inexplicably ceased because they have put their faith in the saving grace of Jesus through his death on the cross.  Testimonies of miraculous healing from various illnesses, depressions, material blessings, family reconciliations, etc.were results  of their conversions.  In short, their lives have been transformed.  One can see the  happiness and inner peace, that now prevails in their lives.  These experiences are true too, whether one has turned to  Islam, Buddhism, Zen, or Hinduism or any other variant of religion.  Their testimonies will have a common thread of changed lives.

 

Looking at the change of each person’s life, such moving testimonies are quite impressive.  But once these remarkable testimonies are examined as part of a larger pattern, it presents us with a serious theological problem.  Although each of these remarkable testimonies may appear to most as evidence of the validity of their newly found faith, the fact is, all these religions cannot all be valid.  When it comes to spiritual experiences and miraculous occurrences,  things can get quite messy.  The realm of faith would be very simple if only one religion produces life changing transformations and miraculous happenings.  This can be very frustrating to a fervent believer, as this can be the most disorganized arena of organized religion.  The life changing experiences, a believer experiences in his newly found religion is a universal phenomenon produced by almost all faiths.  And people from almost all religions can claim unbelievable changes in their character and personality, because of their faith, regardless of the truth of the doctrines their religion teaches.  In essence, there is no relationship between spiritual transformation which occurs in the heart of the faithful believer and the spiritual truth, he proclaims.


Let us keep in mind that our world is full of world religions, all of which boast of millions of followers.  These believers in their diverse faiths all speak of “character and personality” changes which we can also say is true within the context of Christianity.  If we pay careful attention to their personal testimonials, how their faith have transformed them, it will seem as if they all belong to the same religion, their testimonies all say the same thing, the experience of a connection with the divine.


Gauging by your doctrinal standard, these devoted faithful are lost souls merely following a “false religion”.  We then can realize that startling religious experiences cannot speak of the validity of their theology.  Note that Hinduism and Islam have radically different teachings on the nature of God, yet how is it that Hindus, Christians, Mormons, and Muslims are all at the very same time are experiencing this profound religious conversions?  It becomes puzzling then, when spiritual transformation among the faithful will point us in the direction of spiritual truth.  All these religions cannot possibly be transmitting truth, nevertheless, each of them does produce profound spiritual transformations within the character and personality of their faithful.


The question then is, why would God allow all religions, regardless of the theological untruths they espouse, to ignite a spiritual passion within the heart of the believer?  The Scriptures contain a record of many individuals and nations who possessed fervent devotion to their idolatry.  Yet their spiritual adultery is condemned as an utter abomination, regardless of the spirituality and transformation they derived.   Why would the Almighty permit religions whose fundamental teachings have no basis in truth to produce life-changing experiences and miraculous occurrences in the lives of their devout followers?


Let us look in the book of Deuteronomy, where the passage addresses this dilemma in an even more startling scenario,  Deuteronomy 13:1-2, the bible raises the question of what to do when a prophet offers to show a miracle in order to lend credibility to his message.  How are we to respond if, in fact, the promised miracle comes to pass just as he predicted?  Should we then follow this prophet even if he encourages us to worship other gods which are unknown to believers in the One True God?  You must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer, the Bible emphatically declares.  God did not send him.


Why would the Almighty permit religions and prophets who teach false doctrines to produce spiritual transformations and miraculous events?  The answer is in the verses that follow.

The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love Him with all you heart and with all your soul.  It is the Lord your God you must follow, and Him you must revere.  Keep His commands and obey Him, serve Him and hold fast to Him.
(Deuteronomy 13:3-4)

 

I believe God is testing man with the experiences and observations we have had and have made.  This is our choice in a world where free will hangs in its perfect balance.  Will we worship the God, who has revealed Himself in the Old Testament or turn to gods whom True believers have not known? If we live in a world where only one faith could produce spirituality and miraculous life-changing experiences, that precious balance of free will could not exist.


In the 18th chapter of 1 Kings, the Bible relates that when Elijah had challenged 450 priests of Baal to bring a sacrifice to their gods and see if their offering would be miraculously accepted with fire, there was a peculiar spectacle which followed.  It seems as though there was doubt in the minds of these pagan worshipers that Baal would hear their supplications and consume their bullock with a heavenly fire.  The Bible vividly recounts how they enthusiastically entreated Baal and prayed fervently for a miracle all day.  They even climbed on top of the altar and began to prance beside their sacrifice, and when that failed to secure a response from their gods, in their frantic seal they used knives and lancet to slice away flesh from their bodies.  These prophets of Baal were on fire for their gods.  Regardless of their unyielding zeal for their idols, they were commanded to turn away from these abominations.  


In fact, the prophet Jeremiah warns us that the spirituality gained from following false prophets and corrupt teachers may become so encompassing and overwhelming that one may begin to have dreams regarding these prophets, Jeremiah concludes.


….for thus says the Lord of host, the God of Israel, “Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst decieve you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed for they prophesy falsely to you in My name.  I have not sent them, says the Lord.”  
(Jeremiah 28:8-9)

 

Jeremiah’s message is clear.  If the prophet’s message has so permeated your being to the point that one is having dreams of these false prophets and their false teachings, we alone are the ones responsible for these improper apparitions.  God has not sent them.


Furthermore, it is said that the God of all mankind would preempt a false religion, proclaimed in His name, which would lead millions from the true path, and towards damnation.  This is incorrect, for if this conclusion is accurate, why do these masses of spiritually blind believers make such deplorable choices about their religious affiliations?  Why hasn’t God in fact ” preempted these false religions?  Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world when Christianity is supposedly the only life transforming truth?  In essence, how could so many be so wrong about something so crucial as religion when, according to its reckoning, the Almighty would never “lead millions” away from His true path?


The Bible reveals that God does not lead mankind away from His true path.  This was man’s decision alone, and it will forever remain in his domain.  And our Creator never removed that decision from within our reach.  As the Old Testament declares in Deuteronomy 30:15-19:  

 

See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord, your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.  If though, your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.  I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse, therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.


God permits man to become enthralled with false religions for the same reason He permits a married man to be attracted  to women other than his wife,  Free will is within his grasp.  If this God ordained tender balance of free will were ever compromised. virtue would remain beyond the reach of man.  One is not to look to spirituality and miraculous life changing happenings as one’s guide to truth of his faith.  The Bible alone is our  source of instruction for faith.  One, who has committed his life to the God of Israel,  can  take part in the spiritual food His Word provides.  Our foundation must be the Old Testament, never spiritual expressions and occurrences.


Lastly, it has been a puzzlement to me, why Christians are aghast when one declares his faith in the One True God of Israel. yet they themselves declare there is only one God.  The Old Testament is full of God’s declarations that He alone is God, and besides Him, there is no other; no one is equal to him; He will not give His glory to anyone.;  He, alone is the Almighty God;  He alone is the Creator;  He, alone is the Saviour;  He alone is the Sustainer of the universe.  We are His creatures. We are His people, the sheep of His pasture.

 

 Christians say, Jesus is the son of God, that we should go to him in order to reach God.  If Jesus is the son,  then, he should be glad that we acknowledge his father, for if he is a true son, there should not be any  competition between him and  his father.  Yet we, who has put our faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are condemned by Christians to everlasting perdition.  Isn’t this a puzzlement?

 

 These are my thoughts on your declarations.  I still stand to be corrected, if I am wrong.  May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob give you His abundant blessings.  Let us continue to pray for each other.  

 

With my love and prayers,


 

BAN@S6K

Discourse: Christian to Sinaite – 10

 [Continuing the ongoing discussion by email between BAN@S6K and her missionary friend . . . . here’s the response to #8.]

 

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I have a couple of clarifications to make.  
As a Bible believer,
 
(1) I am a student of the Old and New Testaments.
(2) I am NOT a repacement theorist but know God had and has a continuing plan for His people, Israel, as well as His church.  
(3)I am grateful for the Torah that came to us through his people and for the Saviour, Jesus, who was a Jew.
(4) I continue the study of His Word (Old and New Testament) daily.
(5) I love the Word of God.
 

 

Now to what I know to be the crux of our disagreement theologically.

 

It is JESUS.
 
1.  I have put my trust in His substitutionary death for my sin.
2.  I have walked and talked with him for over 70 years.
3.  He has continually answered prayers, given comfort, wisdom, understanding and love to me.
4.  I have proclaimed salvation through Christ alone to many and have seen the transformations in many lives.
5.  He has tested my faith. 
6. There is no reason for me to explore or research. My heavenly Father has shown me Himself through His Son.
 

 

I love Him, praise Him and look forward to seeing His face.
 

 

One can find all kinds of diversionary religious philosophies based on scriptures used out of context or by picking and choosing what to hold to and what to dismiss. 
 

 

I, hereby, testify that the scripture   states

 

  •  Acts 4:12 

There is no other name (Jesus) under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” 

  • John 1:12   

 

“But to as many as received him (Jesus) to them He gave the right to be called the sons of God.  

The context of these passages makes this plain.
 
 I continue to pray for God’s grace in opening your eyes to the truth.

 


Evidence for Christianity [?] – “Jesus is Jehovah” – 3

 [First posted in 2012; we hope to pick up this series and continue it even if we have enough posts in this website that explain our position on the claims of the best and most famous apologists for the religion we once were part of, whose apologetics we never questioned before. Our  DISCOURSE category is a good resource if you have checked it out, because the Christian colleagues who debate with Sianites quote from the books of Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel, Bill Bright, and others, famous published defenders of the faith whose books we have studied when we were die-hard Christians.  If we never get around to continuing this, check out DISCOURSE, the debates there worth the read!—Admin1]

 

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Image from amazon.com

Image from amazon.com

The table featured hereunder is on page 362 of Josh McDowell’s “Historical Evidence for Christianity.”

Chapter 8: “If Jesus wasn’t God, He deserves an oscar.”

This is provided under subtitle: “His Indirect Claims to Deity.”

Author’s note:
 “Jesus, in many cases, made known His deity indirectly by both His words and his actions.  Listed below are a number of these references.” 
 
 
Sinaite Commentary:  

Having read through the table featuring NT and OT “references”,   this is what baffles us:  hard as we try to make the connection,  we still cannot see how TNK/OT verses relate to the NT verses.  What are we missing?

Is it enough to cite verses  with the presumption that —
  • one refers to the other,
  • is a prophetic utterance fulfilled in the other,
  • is a prooftext used to confirm of the doctrinal statements of the latter?

Dear visitor/reader,  please read through the verses in the table below, perhaps you can do a better job!  If you see a connection,  kindly enlighten us about what we are missing in the logical thinking and intellectual grasp of “evidence” according to this bestselling author-lawyer-christian apologist.

Write your comment in ‘Leave a Reply’ box below.
Remember this as you read through:  anyone living later can make the same claim to be God Himself using earlier scripture, quoting it verbatim, applying it to the claimant of the Divine title—but it is no proof, simply a claim. It’s worse when the later verse hardly connects with the original earlier verse.

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In the original table in the book, only the references from OT and NT were  provided, i.e. title of book, chapter and verse, leaving it up to the reader to look them up.  We did look them up and we have typed out the verses for your convenience.
The  “OT” references  are from The Jewish Publication Society TNK or JPS which uses LORD in place of the Tetragrammaton Name which we have inserted in [brackets].
The New Testament verses are from the New American Standard Bible.

As a visual aid, we color code our texts:

  • red for NT verses (to signify caution)
  • and Israel blue for TNK verses to signify the original text.
JESUS IS JEHOVAH (YAHWEH)
Of Jehovah
Mutual Title or Act
Of Jesus
Isaiah 40:28 Do you not know? Have you not heard?  The LORD [YHWH] is God from of old, Creator of the earth from end to end, He never grows faint or weary, His wisdom cannot be fathomed.
CREATOR
John 1:3 Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made
that has been made.
Isaiah 45:22
Turn to Me and gain success, all the ends of the earth!  For I am God, and there is none else.
Isaiah 43:11
None but me, the LORD [YHWH]; Beside Me, none can grant triumph.
SAVIOR
John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard
for ourselves, and we know
that this man really is the Savior of the world.”
1 Samuel 2:6
The LORD [YHWH] deals death and gives life, casts down into Sheol and raises up.
RAISE THE DEAD
John 5:21  For just as the
Father raises the dead
and gives them life,
even so the Son
gives life to whom
he is pleased to
give it.
Joel 3:12
Let the nations rouse themselves and march up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; For there I will sit in judgment over all the nations roundabout.
Judge
John 5:27And he has given
him authority to judge
because he is the Son of Man.
cf. Matthew 25:31-46 31But when the  Son
of Man comes in His glory, and all
the angels with Him,
then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 “All the nations will be
gathered before Him; and He
will separate them from one another, as the shepherd
separates the
sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep
on His right, and the
goats on the left.
34 “Then the King will say
to those on His right,
‘Come, you who are blessed
of My Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you
from the foundation of the
world.
 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to
eat; I was thirsty, and you
gave Me something to drink;
I was a stranger, and you
invited Me in;
 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and
you visited Me; I was in
prison, and you came to
Me.’
37“Then the righteous will
answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry,
and feed You, or thirsty, and give You
something to drink?
38‘And when did
we see You
a stranger, and
invite You in, or
naked, and clothe
You?
 39‘When did we see You
sick, or in prison, and
come to You?’
40 “The King will answer
and say to them,
‘Truly I say to you, to the
extent that you did it to
one of these brothers
of Mine,
even the least of
them,
you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say
to those on His left,
‘Depart from Me, accursed
ones, into the eternal
fire which has been prepared for the devil
and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat;
I was thirsty, and you gave Me
nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in;
naked, and you did not
clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not
visit Me.’
44 “Then they themselves
also will answer,
‘Lord, when did
we see You hungry,
or thirsty, or a
stranger, or naked,
or sick, or in prison,
and did not take
care of You?’
45 “Then He will
answer them,
‘Truly I say to you,
to the extent that
you did not do it
to one of the least
of these, you did
not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into
eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.”
Isaiah 60:19,2019
No longer shall you need the sun for light by day, nor the shining of the moon for radiance [by night]; For the LORD [YHWH] shall be your light everlasting, your God shall be your glory.
Your sun shall set no more, your moon no more withdraw; for the LORD [YHWH] shall be a light to you forever, and your days of mourning shall be ended.
LIGHT
John 8:12  Then Jesus again spoke to them,
saying,  “I am the Light
of the world;
he who follows Me
will not walk in the darkness,
but will have the Light of life.”
Exodus 3:14
And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh.”
He continued, “Thus shall you say to the Israelites, ‘Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh  sent me to you.”
IAM
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly,truly, I say to you,
before Abraham was born, I am.”
John 18:5, 6
5They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them,
 “I am He.”
AndJudas also,
who was betraying
Him, was standing
with them.
6 So when He said
to them, “I am He,”
they drewback and
 fell to the ground.
Psalm 23:1
The LORD [YHWH} is my shepherd; I lack nothing.
Shepherd
John 10:11
“I am the good shepherd;
the good shepherd
lays down His life for the sheep.
Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD [YHWH], that is My name; I will not yield My glory to another, nor My renown to idols.
 Isaiah 48:11 
For My sake, My own sake, do I act— lest (My name) be dishonored!  I will not give My glory to another.
Glory of God
John 17:1,5
1Jesus spoke these things;
and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour
has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son
may glorify You,
 5“Now, Father, glorify
Me together
with Yourself,
with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Isaiah 41:4
Who has wrought and achieved this?  He who announced the generations from the start—I, the LORD [YHWH], who was first and will be with the last as well.
 Isaiah 44:6
Thus said the LORD [YHWH], the King of Israel, their Redeemer, the LORD of Hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is  no god but Me.
First and Last
Revelation 1:17
When Isaw Him, I fell at His
feet like a dead man.
And He placed His right hand
on me, saying,
“Do not be afraid;
I am  the first and the last,
Revelation 2:8
“And to the angel
of the church in
 Smyrna write :The first and the last,  who was dead,
and
has come to life, says this:
Hosea 13:14
From Sheol itself I will save them, redeem them from very Death.  Where, O Death, are your plagues?  Your pestilence, where, O Sheol?  Revenge shall be far from My thoughts.
Redeemer
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song,
saying, “Worthy are You to  take the book
and to break its seals;
for You were slain, and
purchased
for God with Your blood
men from every tribe and tongue
and people and nation.
Isaiah 62:5
As a youth espouses a maiden, your sons shall espouse you; and as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you.
Hosea 2:18 
And in that day–declares the LORD [YHWH]–You will call [Me] Ishi, and no more will you call me Baali.
Bridegroom
Revelation 21:2 
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven
from God,made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
cf. Matthew 25:1 ff. “Then the kingdom of heaven
will be comparable to
ten virgins, who took their
 lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
Psalm 18:3
O LORD [YHWH] my crag, my fortress, my rescuer, my God, my rock in whom I seek refuge, my shield, my mighty champion, my haven.
Rock
1 Corinthians 10:4
and all drank the same
spiritual drink, for they were
drinking from a spiritual rock
which followed them;
and the rock was Christ.
Jeremiah 31:33
But such is the covenant I will make with the House of Israel after these days —declares the LORD [YHWH]:  I will put My Teaching into their inmost being and inscribe it upon their hearts. Then will I be their God, and they shall be My people.
Forgiver of Sins
Mark 2:7, 10 
7“Why does this man speak that way?
He is blaspheming;
who can forgive sins
but God alone?”
10 “But so that you
may know that
the Son of Man
has authority
on earth to forgive
sins “- He said to the paralytic,
Psalm 148:2
Praise Him, all His angels, praise Him, all His hosts.
Worshiped
by Angels
Hebrew 1:6
And when He
again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OFGOD WORSHIP.
Throughout O.T.
Addressed
in Prayer
Acts 7:59
They went on stoning
 Stephen as he called on the Lord and said,
“Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
Psalm 148:5
Let them praise the name of the LORD [YHWH], for it was He who commanded that they be created.
Creator
of Angels
Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things
were created, both in the heavens
and on earth, visible and invisible,
whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities – all
things have been created through Him and for Him.
Isaiah 45:23
By Myself have I sworn, from My mouth has issued truth, a word that shall not turn back:  To Me every knee shall bend, every tongue swear loyalty.
Confessed
as Lord
Philippians 2:11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of
God the Father.