[First posted in 2015. This is yet another discourse between two friends formerly belonging to the same household of Christ-centered faith. One leaves the faith and follows the way of Sinai 6000 and predictably, as it happens in such friendships, there is a rift, understandably. The pattern is much the same as you should expect by now, if you have followed the posts under the category DISCOURSE. We share these exchanges to enlighten those who are in transition from Christ-centered faith to a Christ-less one such as ours, or perhaps we should say Jesus-centered faith and Jesus-less faith, since “christ” is simply Greek for the English word “messiah” or the Hebrew “maschiach”. There really seems to be no meeting of minds when one side disengages from Christianity while the other remains. Relationships are affected even if there is half-hearted effort to continue in friendship. Still, there is much to learn from reading exchanges between individuals whose faith convictions are strong and clearly expressed. The ‘eavesdroppers’ or ‘outsiders listening/looking in’ probably agree with one side or another or remain objective, not swayed by views expressed; whatever, we encourage you to add your opinion in the boxes provided below every post in this website. In fact, we wish there were more visitors leaving messages, negative or positive, all welcome; that’s how we learn from one another.
His whole message was on the “Kingdom of Jesus Christ.” He is from Davao City and his church is the Jesus Christ Cathedral.
They had an 800 number on the t.v. screen that people could call for more info. I ended up talking to a nice lady from the Bay Area for about 1/2 hr.
The crux of this “ministry” is that Jesus is God. They don’t
believe in the Triune God evident in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I disagreed with what she told me, but I found her very dedicated to the message this “pastor” was preaching.
Like I said, the program went on for hours of him talking without a break. About 3 hrs.
You and I have been independent worshippers of the God we are convinced we know at any point in our lives.
We’re God-seekers, but we also have to be Truth-seekers. . . and Truth has been mishandled by religions for centuries as we well know. We both think ‘out of the box’ and that’s good, that puts us in a category of people who don’t have to get stuck and just like the turtle, gotta get out of comfort-turtle-shell to get to the next point in the destination going where? Well for me, I’ve always loved God at any point in my life and much of my strivings since 27, have moved toward knowing more about Him. But got stuck in Christianity almost like forever—the website explains.
But I will tell you right off the bat, I have found SBN (Jimmy Swaggart Ministries) to be preaching the message that I most embrace: i.e. that all that we have need of is found in the Cross of Christ. My faith is very simple in reality: I am a sinner; Jesus is my Savior.
The music and preaching ministry of Jimmy Swaggart and his son Donnie really tell it like it is. I find the music most comforting and uplifting and leads me into praise and worship. I watch their live services on Sun. a.m. and p.m. and Wed. nite, as well as re-runs.
As a matter of fact, if I don’t have FOX news channel on, I have SBN on. I leave SBN on all night and wake up several times to watch and listen. I love listening to the old Crusades. Jimmy Swaggart was the first and only minister that I am aware of that exposed the Catholic church for the false religion that it is.
I watch his wife’s program every morning from 7-9 a.m. and it is a talk/call-in discussion/answer type program. She covers political issues, education issues like Common Core that has been foisted on the public schools here in the U.S.and all manner of spiritual issues. And of course, everything is Bible-based and Christ-centered when addressed.
The only thing that I am in disagreement with is JSM’s take on Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. They are proponents of the Gap Theory, even though they say it is a “theory.” I take Ken Ham’s Answers in Genesis viewpoint on a young earth, 6 literal days of creation, no death before Adam sinned and a global flood.
And no, I am not a fan of Joel Osteen, the Daystar gang (Marcus and Joni Lamb, founders), the TBN gang (Paul Crouch died a year ago) but his son, Matt and giddy wife, Laurie are head of the ministry now. Nor am I fan of the Purpose Driven church/life guy, Rick Warren. They are all preaching another gospel. Many of them are Word of Faith, like the Copelands, Creflo Dollar andthose oddities that are into the Hebraic movement like Larry and Tiz Huch. And no, I can’t stand Benny Hinn either. All wolves in sheep’s clothing IMO. God will have to be the judge, and HE WILL JUDGE. The Bible says judgment will begin at the household of faith.
I believe the Lord has gifted me to preach and teach, and that is what I have done and continue to do. He has given me spiritual gifts like prophecy, word of wisdom, word of knowledge and discernment of spirits. I cannot deny these things. Therefore, I am secure in my faith. I am fully trusting the Lord in my life. I am not seeking another way.
I do fear that you and I are not on the same page as pertains to the Lord Jesus Christ and the Word of God, the Bible.
I will look into the things you have shared, but I cannot promise my involvement in any of it…unless the Lord changes my mind and I can serve Him by being part of it. For now, I think it’s another foray into something that will turn out like your foray into the Hebraic movement, which I wanted to discuss with you when we met, but I knew it was a moot point when I sensed you were into something else.
Thank you for letting me know about this, and I am glad I asked about [the preacher in Davao], as I was most curious if you knew anything about him.
If our not being on the ‘same page’ is a problem for you, we can go the same way we did last time we connected by email. I wish you well in your walk with Him.
Anyway, we can switch to other topics since, as they say, two taboo topics to avoid if you want to continue in any relationship: religion and politics. . . . unless we are open-minded and tolerant enough in listening to views we don’t agree with.
Christian: It seems that I am the one who has rekindled our communication now and in the past. I did not hear from you since you left for San Francisco. So it would not be that different to have broken fellowship/communication.
I don’t think any subject should be off limits, but I do think because you and I are on different pages now in our belief and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, we should not continue to barrage one another with our respective belief systems. You know where I am coming from and I now know where you are coming from, as I sensed there was something very different about your spirituality when we were together.
You have sent quite a voluminous amount of what you believe and are involved in, most of which I have not any interest in reading.
Now you know I am diametrically opposed to what you have written and your concept of God being Universal, and don’t care to be the “bait” for the readers of your website. To me it would be akin to casting my pearls before swine and giving what is sacred to the dogs.
So if we can continue on in a respectful manner towards one, we can remain in touch for whatever reason or whatever purpose we would chose to communicate with one another.
I am dismayed by your response to my not wanting to be involved in your website chats, or to be indoctrinated in the way you believe about God. Universalism is nothing new, btw. I certainly do not feel you respect my decision and are taking it as rejection.
My thoughts have gone back to the beautiful fellowship you and I had around our mutual love of the Lord and how we shared it not only with one another, but with the residents and staff at [Senior retirement facilities]. We were truly ministers of the gospel in those facilities.
We stood against [former boss] and her ungodly philosophy and how she tried to limit or do away with anything Christian. You discipled [an activity provider] the piano player who was involved in occultism, if memory serves me correctly. You held Bible studies with the Miranda lady. I could go on with the precious memories of how the gospel of Jesus Christ played such a role in our relationship as well as our work.
I actually watched a couple of programs on each of those networks late into the night and found myself raising my hands in praise and agreement with what was being said.
Sinaite: I was not trying to convince you to my faith; if you misread my intentions, allow me to clarify.
My colleagues and I who all came from Christianity— know better than to ‘evangelize’ our former Christian colleagues. All of you have exactly the same reaction, the same arguments—sound like us when we were still staunchly defending our Christian faith. What we offer at the website
I will take some time to look over and read that which you’ve attached (which made this email stretch way out all wonky). I’m still not sure how I would add something to the blog. I probably misunderstood what you said in that regard. It was my understanding that I would email anything I wanted to post to you first. Maybe you could run the procedure by me again.
Also, I am in perfect agreement that we should not discuss our own personal faith in a way that we are espousing a belief system. But I believe we should be able to share things in a way that would benignly acknowledge what we would believe is the Hand of God in our lives as pertains to various issues going on in our lives at any given time. I would find it very difficult to never mention the way I feel the Lord is working in my life. That is just as much apart of who I am as the air I breathe. I would not be offended in any way if you were to share from the same perspective.
I do have to admit that right now my spirit is grieved to hear you say what you believe about Jesus Christ. Would it be safe to assume that you no longer believe the whole of the Bible either, particularly the New Testament. If that is true, I understand why you have turned your back on Jesus as Savior and Lord and are seeking God based on the Torah alone. Basically that is much like where the Jews are in their understanding of Who Jesus is. He is not the Messiah and He is not God to the Jews. And yes, according to the Bible and Christian doctrine, the Jews are considered lost, except those who have put their faith in the coming Savior the first time and the returning King of Kings and Lord of Lords the second time.
Just trying to get my mind around your belief system. Thinking out loud again, or in print. No need to answer unless you want to let me know if I got it.
Thanks again for responding. I look forward to staying in touch with you and vice versa, although it may not be daily . Believe it or not, I do manage to keep myself very busy every day, so spending time on a blog defending my faith might take awhile for me to get into.
And as far as the residents at [senior facility] go, I know I am making an impact on their lives if only for an hour 3x/week. The sweet little voices that thank me for coming as I head out the door make it all worthwhile. And each day is different with them. I have had a great week with them so far. Many of them are very sick with a bad cold right now, so if they aren’t coughing up a lung, they are sleeping. It’s a blessing from the Lord to be able to get up and put on an attractive outfit with a great jewelry ensemble and my planned activity resources in my trunk. I wouldn’t want to not go there.
O.K. this is enough for now.
Unitarian Universalism [2][3][4] is a liberal religion of Christian background characterized by a “free and responsible search for truth and meaning“.[5] Unitarian Universalists do not share acreed but are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. The roots of Unitarian Universalism (UU) are in liberal Christianity, specifically Unitarianism and Universalism. Unitarian Universalist’s state, from these traditions, comes a deep regard for intellectual freedom and inclusive love, so that congregations and members seek inspiration and derive insight from all major world religions.[6]
The theology of individual Unitarian Universalists ranges widely, with the majority beingHumanist,[7] but also having members that follow atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, deism,Judaism, Christianity, neopaganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and many more.
The Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA) was formed in 1961, a consolidation of theAmerican Unitarian Association, established in 1825, and the Universalist Church of America,[8]established in 1866. It is headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts, and serves churches mostly in the United States. A group of thirty Philippine congregations is represented as a sole member within the UUA.
It would be akin to me finding blogs where Mormons, or Catholics, or maybe even Jews, blog about their respective belief systems that do not accept Jesus as God or salvation through His finished work on the cross, but rather salvation by works, and post comments on there refuting their belief system(s).
I was born into a home where my mother was raised Catholic and my father was raised Lutheran. I converted to Mormonism when I was 14 after the young couple who lived across the street took me to the LDS church. I was their baby-sitter for their adopted first child, a son.
I embraced Mormonism until I had my first son and began to question their beliefs about Jesus, and man becoming like God. Their mantra is “As man is God once was, and as God is man may become.”
We were also struggling with laying up a year’s supply of food. Our long hallway linen closet was full of flour, sugar, canned soup, jello, etc. But of course, we weren’t allowed to drink coffee or tea or other caffeinated beverages, so none of that there.
I’ll never forget the day I was ironing and I started asking the Lord to lead me to the truth. I went over to my book case and reached for the white leather KJV Bible my grandparents had sent to me for Christmas in 1960. It fell open to Matt. 6:19 at the top of the right page. My eyes went to the scripture about not laying up treasures on earth… and to the end of the chapter. From then on, every time I opened my Bible, it opened to a scripture that refuted Mormonism.
Long story short, I (we) left the Mormon church and we started attending an Assembly of God church. Ferrol is from a “jack Mormon” (inactive) family, but they were very upset when we left the LDS church. We have a long church history and you pretty much know my feelings about “churchism” better known as “denominationalism.” However, my faith, trust and belief in Jesus Christ has only grown over all these many years.
As you said, “you will never return to Christianity, and I will never leave.” So we have both drawn lines in the sand when it comes to our respective “paths.” For that reason, I will not be posting on your blog. To me it would be like the scripture says: “do not cast your pearls before swine, or give what is sacred to the dogs, or else they will turn and tear you to pieces.” That is the way I see it, even if that was not your intent to have me be “bait” or see it as me casting my pearls…
Sinaite: I perfectly understand; in fact I did not expect anything different. We are who we are, and that’s good . . . God allows us that much. Freedom of the will is His precious gift to humankind; one He will never interfere with or invade. I respect your staying with the faith you have chosen, and as you have sincerely stated, you respect my deviation from the faith.
Sinaite: My reunion with [friends] was purely a social one. We caught up with each other in the 7 years we had not seen each other. I had never discussed my Christian faith with them even when I was at [senior retirement facility]; I simply led Sunday hymn-singing as an activity for the Christian seniors who could not go to church. And in general, the only people I’ve informed re: the different path I’ve taken are individuals I’ve connected with because they’re Christian, like you, and others I have brought to belief in Jesus Christ as God ( a lot of them in fact, right here in [in the city where I live]).
Christian: O.K. I understand about you not bringing this up in your time with them in a group social setting. I want to remind you that you did not bring it up with me either in the two times we were together in person. But I knew something was different about you when you referred to “your faith” as pertains to MY faith. Something was just off. Now that I know you have rejected faith in Jesus Christ and even rejected Him as God, it only confirms to me the gift of discernment of spirits that God has blessed me with.
I disagree with your comment about God giving us the “gift of free will and that He will not invade or interfere in it.” The Bible makes it very clear in various places that God sent a “lying spirit” “sent strong delusion” or “gave them over to a reprobate mind” when those have opposed Him or rejected His great salvation. Adam and Eve ran from God even after He gave them many chances to repent. They never repented or accepted His covering and died lost. First example in the Bible..in great sequential detail.
The Hound of Heaven is forever pursuing us, and we can only come to Him when drawn by the Holy Spirit. The freewill was given to us so that we can chose to accept or reject “the Way, the Truth and the Life.” The Lord is testing us and we are in a precarious dangerous place once we come to saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and then outright reject and deny Who He is and what He has done for us. Our place is no longer secure in God except in Jesus Christ.
I also don’t “respect” the direction you are going. I accept it, but I don’t respect it. It has been very troubling to me, but has only drawn me closer to the God of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit that leads us into all Truth.
Praise God and bless His Holy Name, that Name above all names!
Sinaite: Got it, [name] I expected no less from you.
Christian: I’ll take that as a positive [name].
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