[If you’re following this discourse series, this covers the period before the parting of ways of our small group of Messianics, Christians and independent unchurched from our fellowship/church affiliations. The Messianic here is our long-time teacher whom we followed from Christianity to his Messianic belief system, taught us for 2 decades at least. To his credit, he did give us a hearing but refuted our claims all the way, as we expected. We had not organized into Sinai 6000 at this time; we simply got out of Christianity. Original email exchanges have been edited.]
Dec 4, 2010
M: I thought you were going to explain to me your position, with VAN/BAN or any others, so I can verbally hear your position…listen, not argue, and counter your position if possible. I need to understand you!! After all these years, we cannot just split without some interaction!! That is not Torah.
So I will make time for you…You do not sound like the NSB I thought I knew!! Sayang..…………[Tagalog for “what a pity” or “what a waste.”
NSB: What is “sayang” about refocusing back to YHWH and TNK?
How can FINALLY discovering YHWH and learning to worship Him and no one else be “sayang”?
Isn’t HE the One True God?
Wouldn’t HE be worth knowing in His self-revelation and action/interaction with Israel as recorded in TNK?
I thought all your teaching was about bringing us back to our Hebraic roots? So now I am taking that route seriously, wholeheartedly, and learning so much more about the Jewish perspective on everything I never knew about and I find I am finally understanding so much more than I ever did from christianity/messianic teaching on the nature of God, sin, atonement, etc.
I have coordinated with BAN to have a meeting at her house first thing Wednesday so we could all talk about our return to our Jewish roots. I will not be joining the noon Bible class with you, I really want my group to give you a hearing because they’ve only heard from me lately. You will provide the balance. Please encourage them to ask questions about anything they’re not clear about. Filipinos are shy about expressing their disagreement so this gives them total freedom to discuss with you.
M: No problem…we will see how things develop, with the turmoil in Egypt and other countries setting the stage for pressure on Israel, and then see who is right.
BAN: Shalom, once again thank you for your input on Gen. 3:15; I do agree with you that messiah and messianic vision is at the heart of the Jewish people, for after all the messianic vision is an original concept at the heart of traditional Judaism, and the dream of an eventual redemption is one of its foundations.
Where we (NSB, VAN, and I, and of course the Jews) digress from you and the Christian world is your interpretation of WHO the messiah is. You have identified him as Jesus Christ, the son of God, who is God himself made flesh, which is not at all validated by the Tanach, as evidenced by the mistranslations and misinterpretations advocated by believers in Jesus Christ.
We would rather cling to what God says in—-[AST Tanach]
- Exodus 20:2-3 – I am HASHEM, your God, Who has taken you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence.
- Deuteronomy 4:35 – You have been shown in order to know that HASHEM, He is the God! There is none beside Him!
- Isaiah 43:10-11 – You are My witnesses —the word of HASHEM —and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you will know and believe in Me, and understand that I am He; before Me nothing was created by a god nor will there be after Me!
- and many other passages as the Tanach is full of God’s affirmation that He alone is God and there is no other.
With regards Genesis 3:15, NSB has adequately declared our stand—we find no messianic prophecy in it at all. As you have said, you find Jesus in all of Tanach, and yet we do not see that at all.
It all boils down to your faith in Jesus because you believe in the apostolic scriptures; thus, we will neer have a meeting of mind and heart.
We believe only in the One True God as He has revealed Himself in the Tanach. Let us study His Word with no baggage of Christian theology and see how the Spirit of Adonai will lead us. Until then, Adonai’s blessings on all of us. May His Spirit lead us to His truth.
M: Shalom, I may need to get a Stone Edition of the Tanakh to continue checking on things, but this morning I decided to check out Genesis 3:15. Both my JPS Tanakh and my Pentateuch & Haftorahs translate as: ….. between your offspring and hers; They shall strike at your head, and you shall strike at their heel. I am bold to pit my elementary Hebrew against them [referring to Jewish translators], because the Hebrew text clearly says “hu” = he, not they, and of course “ata” = you singular. These false translations are trying to cover up for the prophecy of The Messiah who will be a person, the offspring of the woman, not all of Israel, as they may try to say.
Of course, The Messiah is all through the TNK in addition to the other meshiach persons, like the king and priest. The question is, Who is This Messiah? The January issue of Israel Today has a good section on false messiahs of the past, including Schneerson (sp, I have misplaced my copy) of the Chabad Lubavitch. If you are really going to “Think Jewish,” you will need to Think Messiah, as The Messiah is at the heart of the Jewish people all through time, the heart of the Davidic Covenant, whether certain Jewish scholars want to admit to the Person or push their idea of a messianic age only.
I just want you to be aware that the scholarship of current Jewish anti-missionaries is not fully honest. Some of their logic is foolish, and the comparisons they make from OT with NT. They have an agenda and hatred against Messianics in particular, and are getting lots of money for their efforts. As you know, we are putting our own money into our ministry.
I can find flaws in their writings and arguments just using logic, a fuller context of passages, and my Interlinear Hebrew, plus my JPS Tanakh. I do not have the Stone version yet.
With world events lurching on toward our Prophecy position, while you ignore the NT, are you going to accept the mark of the beast on your hand or forehead, as it seems the preparation for that is beginning?
I will not bother you 3 much as I have a lot of preparation to do for our next trip to Manila . . . . But if you find a “gem of Truth,” pass it on. I am not blind to what is going on, nor blind to the history of the Bible texts in ages past, BUT my Trust in YHVH is unshakeable that He will not allow me to be deceived as long as I am completely honest with Him!! BTW, even in my JPS Tanakh there are TWO YHVH in Genesis 19:24, the Son on earth calling down fire from the Father in heaven.
BAN: Thank you that you have not given up on us. I appreciate your concern and your desire to put us ‘in the light.’ These past months have been an intensive time for us (NSB, VAN, and I) studying the Tanach and the apostolic scriptures, and researching all available sources (Jewish, Christian secular, etc.) we could lay our hands on in order to get to the truth of Adonai’s word. We might not be scholars on your level, but we rely on what God has revealed in His word, coupled with prayer that He shows us His truth and the willingness to be humble to admit our errors if we are wrong in our conclusions.
I have been following the email exchanges between you and NSB. I see that there would not be a meeting of the mind and heart between us (NSB, VAN and I) since we are coming from a different presupposition. As NSB has said, we do not accept the canonicity of the apostolic scriptures anymore. It would be useless for us to ask you to accept our conviction (the Tanach is the sole rule of faith as it is the only revealed word of God) and rejecting the canonicity of NT after having studied and researched on how it came to be written.
My challenge is that we all continue to study and pray to come to know the truth. Adonai will surely answer this kind of prayer. He will not respond to both of us affirming our different convictions. And when He answers, may He give us the grace to accept and to humble ourselves in admitting our erroneous conclusions.
May the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, guide us as we persevere in our walk of faith in Him.
NSB: Well said, BAN, let’s rest our case! There is no ‘Shalom’ between us anymore even if we keep saying it to each other. God’s TRUTH is really a 2-edge sword, dividing former friends who become serious seekers of the TRUE GOD. As he said, we will “see who is right.”
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